In This Episode

00:00 The Mysterious Fire and Annabelle’s Arrival
01:50 The Legacy of the Warren Family
05:11 The True Purpose of the Warren Museum
10:10 The Dangers of Annabelle and Other Artifacts
15:16 Understanding the Unknown and Human Energy
20:36 Protecting the Warren Legacy
25:28 Final Thoughts and Tools for Understanding Paranormal Phenomena

Scott Allan (00:12)
All right, here we go. In the early hours of May 15th, 2025, flames devoured the historic not away plantation in Louisiana. Just days after Annabelle, the world’s most famous haunted doll arrived in New Orleans for a paranormal tour. Across social media rumors spread like wildfire. Was Annabelle to blame?

or was this tragedy simply the result of faulty wiring? Tonight in this special bonus episode, we dig into the facts, the legends, and the legacy of the Warren family, guardians of the paranormal and truth seekers for generations. My guest tonight is Chris McKinnell, the grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren, the legendary husband and wife team who became the world’s most well-known paranormal investigators. For decades,

and Lorraine traveled the globe investigating haunted houses, demonic possessions, and unexplained phenomena. Ed, a self-taught demonologist and Lorraine, a gifted clairvoyant and medium, dedicated their lives to helping families tormented by forces they couldn’t understand. Always with compassion, integrity, and an unwavering belief in the power of good over evil. Their cases inspired books,

Chris McKinnell (01:36)
Thank

Scott Allan (01:41)
documentaries and blockbuster films, but their true legacy is one of service, protecting the vulnerable and seeking the truth, no matter how unsettling. Chris has carried that legacy forward as head of the Warren Legacy Foundation, charged with protecting both people and reputation from the dangers of myth, misinformation, and the unknown. But when it comes to the infamous objects collected by his grandparents,

especially Annabelle, the story gets more complicated. I’m Scott Allen and this is a bonus episode of the Enlightened Life Podcast where we investigate the mysteries that shape our world and the people who dedicate their lives to understanding them. Let’s begin our investigation.

Chris, thanks for ⁓ joining us today for this bonus episode. I really appreciate it.

Chris McKinnell (02:37)
Of course, anything. You’re a friend. Happy to do it.

Scott Allan (02:40)
Yeah,

thanks Chris. I appreciate that. You know, your family’s legacy is built on courage, compassion and truth. And you’ve often spoken about the real purpose of the Warren Museum, not as a place for curiosity seekers, but as something much more serious. Can you share what the museum was truly meant to be and why that matters now more than ever?

Chris McKinnell (03:03)
Absolutely. You know, I think the worst part of my grandparents legacy is that my grandfather was a little bit of a marketing genius and he called it a museum. It never ever was open to the public. It was always by special invitation only with specific instructions on how to protect yourself. You should never go in there and touch anything. You should be respectful. It was not a tourist attraction. ⁓

And it was a prison. was a place to protect people from those things. It was there to educate people. Nothing more. What’s going on today with many of the objects traveling around the country? Yeah, that concerns me tremendously. It’s dangerous.

Scott Allan (03:52)
We’re gonna get to that ⁓ as we go through the episode, but for listeners who may be new to the foundation, can you share your mission and how you honor your grandparents’ legacy?

Chris McKinnell (03:56)
Thank

Of course. And it’s not just me, it’s people like you. The foundation is made up of volunteers from all over the world who freely give their time and their energy to helping people who believe that they’re troubled by the paranormal. I say believing because many of the people who contact us are not necessarily being bothered by something, but we’re there also to educate.

not just to lead them through spiritual crises, not just to deal with ghosts or inhuman entities that may manifest, but also to help them feel safe in their home when they hear knockings on the door or walking in the hallway. It isn’t necessarily something terrifying. It normally isn’t. And it’s important that we’re sharing that as well. We started the foundation, my grandmother and I.

after the first Conjuring movie came out. We were getting hammered by requests from all over the world for help. And my grandfather had started the New England Society for Psychic Research back in 1952. you know, overseas, people don’t know New England really. They do know the Warrens. And that’s what they’ll associate with.

So I talked to my grandmother about our expanding the mission. We were supposed to be under NESPER, but it didn’t work out, unfortunately. My grandmother loved the idea. She wanted me to move forward with this, and so I did with her blessing. And it has been interesting. We’ve been doing this for about 12 years now, 13 years, and we’ve managed to help thousands of people all over the world. I’m very proud of them.

Scott Allan (05:35)
Mm-hmm.

Chris McKinnell (05:58)
people who have been a part of this.

Scott Allan (05:59)
Yeah, you should be.

So, and I know, you you said it before and you said it again today that the museum was never meant to be a museum. It was meant to be a prison. What do you think your grandparents intended when it started? And, you know, I know you said he was a marketing genius. He called it a museum, but was that really wasn’t his intention to have people come in at any point in time?

Chris McKinnell (06:26)
No, actually it’s in their art studio. My grandparents were artists. And after World War II, my grandfather went to art school with the GI Bill. they, my grandmother designed the entire house that they lived in and they had an art studio built on the side, off to the side, I should say, out in the back. And over the years,

Scott Allan (06:32)
okay.

Chris McKinnell (06:53)
They were being confronted with objects that had very negative energy that shouldn’t be left in people’s homes. At that time, they thought, where can we put these things? What can we do with these things? And they ended up bringing them home and putting them in there. Now, I would tell people differently today. I would say, take it far from any home, any home. Dig a hole a foot deep, bury the object, consecrate the ground.

in the way your faith tells you to do so, whether it’s holy water, blessed salt, Florida water, whatever it is you do, and then never return to it. And that will protect you from these things. But over the years, they kept adding more and more objects. There’s certainly several objects in there that belonged to cases of mind.

but it was not meant to be an attraction. And I’ll say, honestly, a lot of those objects are not dangerous. ⁓ I brought back ⁓ some fetish dolls from Africa. I was in the Peace Corps over there. And I brought back a dagger, two Torek daggers, and they ended up in the museum. ⁓ Just because my grandfather thought they were cool. And they were an object for

Scott Allan (08:09)
Yeah.

Chris McKinnell (08:15)
talking about these things and explaining things to people. It wasn’t that everything in there has to be deadly.

Scott Allan (08:23)
Right, right. Can we talk about Annabel for just a minute because there’s a lot of curiosity right now about her. And it seems to be at the center of so much attention. Can you clarify who owns Annabel and the other artifacts that are in the museum and what your role is in relation to them? Because I think people get very confused between Nesbier, the Warren Foundation, the museum, and they’re just not sure what’s what.

Chris McKinnell (08:53)
Yeah, I know.

It’s embarrassing. It really is. Because in the paranormal world, for people who don’t follow it, for some reason that I will never understand, everybody fights with everyone. It’s like it’s such a small pond. And they’re all afraid that if somebody gets ahead, then they’re never going to be famous or something. I’ve never looked for fame.

You know, in my 20s I was in books and I was on lecture tours and you know, the talk show circuit. And I learned very quickly I didn’t like that. The only reason you see me out here today is because it’s a necessary evil to let people know who we are so that they can find us and get the help they need. But…

The museum and everything that belonged to my grandparents belongs to my mother and her husband Tony Spira. My grandmother didn’t necessarily want that to be the plan. She had actually asked all of us what we wanted when she passed and all I wanted was a cuckoo clock and the family photo albums and one painting. ⁓

They were, she was convinced to do it this way and that everything would be redistributed. That never happened, of course. When I presented the plans to the foundation to Tony, as he had asked me to do, he then blindsided me and said, this is my time. You don’t do anything until I die. I was like, Tony, you’ve never been on a case in your life. Mom’s terrified of the paranormal. I’m trying to help people.

Scott Allan (10:26)
⁓ yeah.

Chris McKinnell (10:49)
And he said, you should have asked me what I wanted to do. Okay. So that’s why we’re no longer part of that organization. Honestly, I’m okay with that because what I’m seeing now is so against what my grandparents believed in. And I know this for a fact. They have been visiting people and telling people how they feel.

including people who are very, very good at what they do.

Scott Allan (11:21)
Yep.

Chris McKinnell (11:22)
And I know they’re upset. mean, yeah, they’ve come to me. Well, my grandmother more than anyone, but my grandfather has also shown up. He just hasn’t been around in like three years, almost three years. But the whole like stacking bottles of alcohol around Annabelle and then selling them for a thousand dollars or something.

Scott Allan (11:25)
And you mean psychically, psychically your grandparents, right? Through leaving messages, yeah.

Chris McKinnell (11:52)
each. That’s, I just don’t understand. Yeah, I don’t understand that. And saying, make sure you get it blessed before you drink it. It’s so crass. And now these things are on display and they’re on tour. And I’m being yelled at, which is why I’ve unfortunately had to come out against my own family.

Scott Allan (12:05)
Gosh.

Chris McKinnell (12:18)
and say something because I do not like being attacked for something I haven’t done. And ethically, it’s important for me to warn the public.

Scott Allan (12:22)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, and it’s funny because that was my next point was, you you have been vocal in your opposition to Annabel leaving the museum and going on tour. And I know you believe that it’s dangerous and you just explained that, but why is it dangerous? What could happen, you know, if these objects are moved or displayed publicly?

Chris McKinnell (12:48)
Okay, well you started out this ⁓ interview talking about the plantation burning down. that has nothing to do with Annabel. That was 60 miles outside of New Orleans where she was, it was, excuse me, even I say she on occasion and I shouldn’t. ⁓ The danger comes when you interact with its energy. When you get up close and there are no safeguards where

Scott Allan (12:55)
Right, right.

Right.

Chris McKinnell (13:18)
Annabelle is being taken anymore. People are being urged to touch the glass enclosure with Annabelle. And my grandfather, there’s a world famous sign that people duplicate everywhere. Positively do not open.

Scott Allan (13:26)
boy.

Chris McKinnell (13:38)
And yet they’re making it into a sideshow attraction. And people are affected by this. Even if, even if this is not the real Annabelle, there are enough people who are psychologically vulnerable that if they believe that it’s Annabelle and it’s not, they can still get hurt. We can manifest demons just with our own thoughts and they can take on a life of their own. They can be deadly.

Scott Allan (13:47)
Yeah.

Do you think that the doll is not Annabelle? The one that’s traveling I’m talking about. do you think they’re leaving the original at home or do you think that it probably is the correct, you know, the real deal? Yeah, there’s no way to know.

Chris McKinnell (14:22)
I’ve

looked at it again and again. It does not look right to me, but then again, you know, maybe they got it cleaned. you know, the way it’s being positioned now is different. I mean, it is just a raggedy end all. It’s hard for me to tell for sure.

Scott Allan (14:41)
And if you’re moving it, it’s apt to move in the, you know, in the case and whatever, you know.

Chris McKinnell (14:43)
Yeah.

I mean, it’s never moved on its own since it came into my grandparents’ possession. That all of those stories of Annabelle escaping or Annabelle moving when my grandmother died, none of that’s

Scott Allan (15:01)
Yeah. Yeah. So in your view, should Annabelle or actually let’s just talk about any of them, any of the artifacts that are in that, you know, call it a museum. Should they ever leave the museum?

Chris McKinnell (15:14)
No, absolutely not.

Scott Allan (15:18)
If you somehow got control of them today, what would you do? Would you go and dig a hole? Would you find a place to bury them? Or what do you think you would do with them?

Chris McKinnell (15:27)
You know, I’ve had different thoughts on that over the years. I thought about creating a safe environment where they can be displayed for teaching. But my grandfather was notoriously bad at taking or keeping records.

So I’m not sure that it would be worthwhile. And perhaps the backhoe would be the better way of going with it, Having said that, just my saying something like that can pretty much guarantee I will never come into possession of the artifacts from the museum.

Scott Allan (15:49)
Right.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah,

you just did it to yourself right there. There. I get it. I get it. And you know, we did talk about the the plantation fire and, and how do you separate fact from rumor in moments like this, you know, and we know that she didn’t do that she didn’t cause it but that’s was the talk. I mean, that’s was the hype.

Chris McKinnell (16:26)
as well as helping a bunch of prisoners escape from the New Orleans jail, which of course that didn’t happen either. It didn’t cause tornadoes wherever it visited or any of these other disasters that are part of life. Healthy skepticism is a good way of looking at it. And also I know this thing. I’ve lived with this thing my whole life.

since I was three, think. No, six. And it’s like dealing with a poisonous snake. You have to get close to it for it to hurt you. It isn’t something that is reaching out over thousands of miles, has it? Yes, it has caused harm, but that was when it was not locked down. My cousin, Ray, just shared a story.

I had never heard this before.

Scott Allan (17:24)
Mm.

Chris McKinnell (17:25)
The Moran, my grandmother was a Moran and the Morans would get together for Christmas Eve every year. And they went over to my grandparents house and Annabelle was sitting in a chair and the kids were all playing around it. And my grandfather saying, don’t touch that. It’s a, it’s a demonic doll. My aunt Gert heard that. She’s like, ⁓ we’re get, we’re out of here. We’re leaving. What are you doing? Leaving that out. So I couldn’t believe that.

They didn’t know how to lock down this thing at first. And yes, it did cause harm for a while, for like five years. But once they learned how to lock it down and keep it in that box, surrounded by holy items, surrounded by prayers and blessed salt, then it was fine. It was contained, it was bound. Now, not so much.

Scott Allan (17:59)
Yeah.

Yeah. Why do you think people are so drawn to these kinds of supernatural explanations?

Chris McKinnell (18:28)
Human beings are natural storytellers and we hate the unknown. Just go all the way back to our paleolithic ancestors looking up at the night skies and seeing distant campfires from their ancestors. They had to explain things to themselves, the mysteries that they couldn’t understand. We would rather believe in the devil

than be faced with the unknown. The devil is something we understand. The devil is something we could fight against, but the unknown is too scary. And this is what I’ve seen play out again and again, and I’ve been doing this 44 years. We will label things according to our cultural and spiritual beliefs, and our perception can create a reality. And I am not saying these things are just in your mind. They’re not. They are

manifestations. They are real. They are made of real energy, but it’s your energy. I’m not talking about human spirits. I’m talking about what we call inhuman spirits or demons or many other types of inhuman spirits around the world. Jin and so forth. These are manifestations created by us, by our human energy, and they can take on a life completely on their own.

Scott Allan (19:37)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

So what do you see as the real risks, whether it’s spiritually, psychologically, or physically of treating these objects as entertainment or as tourist attractions?

Chris McKinnell (20:04)
Well, there’s a small part of me that really says, if it’s just entertainment, people are going to get a thrill out of it. It’s more like a carnival attraction. And they’re lessening the danger for themselves. They’re not taking it seriously. But there are people who know better, who are going there. And if they really knew better, they wouldn’t be going there. So let me take that back a little bit. They’re fascinated.

and they want to see that dangerous thing. think the movies, for all the good it’s done in allowing us to get the word out there that we’re here to help, more, I think it’s turned this into something that…

is, well, anybody who’s watching the Conjuring films thinking you’re watching reality is terribly mistaken. These are Hollywood fantasies. That’s all they really are. There are cases that are behind those, but those are not, you’re not looking at the true story ever. Not even in documentaries most of the time.

Scott Allan (21:15)
So what would you say to people who think that the doll is just really nothing, it’s just legend or hype and that the dangers either aren’t real or overly exaggerated?

Chris McKinnell (21:25)
Good, that’s great, I’m happy for them. Your skepticism can be your shield. I’m not saying that you should go and pick it up because if you’re somebody who’s a negative person, if you’ve got a lot of underlying vulnerabilities, then yeah, maybe interacting with that energy is not healthy for you. But just healthy skepticism is a defense. You’re the last person to be open

Scott Allan (21:34)
Yep, yep.

Chris McKinnell (21:54)
to phenomena in a home. That’s why you can have ten different families live in a house and nothing ever happens. And then that one family moves in and all hell breaks loose.

Scott Allan (22:05)
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I want to switch gears for just a minute because I you know, you I never met your grandparents. I didn’t know them. I didn’t know you at the time, but I feel like I know a little bit about them through you at least of their integrity and their personality. Just how you’ve described them. How do you protect their reputation and the seriousness of their work in this age of viral rumors and internet speculation because

I think one of the hardest things is listening to people say things about people you love that you can’t necessarily, they can’t defend themselves. And you you knew them probably better than anybody else. So, you know, what would you like people to know about?

Chris McKinnell (22:53)
Well, to answer your first part, how do I deal with that? I learned decades ago that you can’t deal with trolls. You can’t give them oxygen because it just makes the fire grow bigger. I’ve tried, I tried. You I used to go online and try to defend my grandparents and I was accused of being Lorraine Warren and trying to do this. ⁓

Scott Allan (23:03)
Yeah.

Chris McKinnell (23:21)
People want to fight, they’re going to fight. They’re going to create these stories. And I’ve heard some whoppers, know, they’re groomers, that they, that my grandfather beat my grandmother and locked her in the basement and all these other crazy things. If my grandfather ever did something like that, I’d have planted him in the ground long before his death. My grandmother was my angel. There was no chance that was ever gonna happen. ⁓

Scott Allan (23:49)
Yeah.

Chris McKinnell (23:51)
All I can tell you is for the first 25 years that they did this work, nobody knew who they were. They started in 1947 and it wasn’t until like 72, I think when the Lindley street case happened in Bridgeport. That’s when they became sort of famous. It’s certainly regionally famous.

And then of course Amityville. And here’s the thing about Amityville. They were invited in by Channel 5 out of New York City. They were there one day, that’s all. And every photo you see with my grandparents in them in Amityville was taken by news photographers, including that famous one of something that looks like a child looking out of a bedroom doorway. Why would they?

Why would the news fake something like

Scott Allan (24:50)
right, right.

Chris McKinnell (24:51)
You know?

So all these stories about it being a hoax and all that, no it wasn’t. I’ve talked to one of the Lutz boys, Men. And he’s deeply damaged. And even threatened my life. Because he thought I making Amityville movies. At the time I was studying with the Kugi people in the jungles of Columbia. ⁓ So no, I wasn’t involved in any.

Scott Allan (25:08)
my gosh.

⁓

Chris McKinnell (25:21)
I’ve never been involved in any movies.

Scott Allan (25:24)
Do you think that, I mean, just off topic for a moment, but Amityville, do you think, there have been people living there for years now, and I know the house is sold a few times, but have you heard anything? Do you know that if they’re still having difficulties?

Chris McKinnell (25:33)
Yes.

Yes. I did an interview with a podcasters six years ago, six years ago. And he was a big podcaster and he’s been in touch with and friends with ⁓ one of the female reporters that was in the house with my grandparents back in the day. And she followed up with all of the different owners and although they haven’t come forward public,

They all admit that yes, there has been activity in the home. As a matter of fact, at that time, six years ago, the house had just been on sale again, and it goes on sale like every two, three years. And the woman who was selling it, her husband, in his early 40s, he was in great physical shape, and he just dropped dead, and she blamed the house for it.

Scott Allan (26:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

my gosh.

Chris McKinnell (26:29)
yeah, I’m not saying that’s what really happened, people do just die. But that’s what she believes.

Scott Allan (26:32)
Yeah, right, right. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, I mean, clearly there was something happening there, right? And you know, the movie was probably just like all other movies hyped up a little bit, you know, to make, you know, I mean, sure, wasn’t exactly like that, but. ⁓

Chris McKinnell (26:45)
⁓ completely.

Same thing with the book. But you know, the thing is, ⁓ George and Kathy Lutz never made a penny off of the book or the movies or anything. Nothing. Ever. But you know, I want to get back to your earlier question about who my grandparents really were. And the part I want to mention is, they would drop anything, everything, to help someone. And they would do that for free. They never charged anybody to help them. And neither do we.

Scott Allan (26:59)
Wow.

Chris McKinnell (27:18)
One thing we do different than my grandparents, excuse me, might sneeze, we don’t publicize the private details of the people we help. Back in the day, I didn’t like that my grandparents did that. My grandfather and I would get in arguments about it because I saw the damage. And you and I have actually spoken about one case where we kind of crossed paths and didn’t know it at the time. But.

I understand in retrospect now, there was no internet. They didn’t have the freedom to keep that confidentiality with some of the big cases. They had to do that to let people know where to come for help. And also, I’ll be honest, when you’re dealing with the Catholic Church especially, even though the Vatican will…

admit yes absolutely this is a real problem and we need help. The local archdiocese are different and each one of them is its own separate kingdom and the archbishops are very very careful about whether or not they’ll get involved in cases and my grandparents would often use publicity as a way of forcing, shaming the church into helping.

Scott Allan (28:42)
Really? Wow.

Yeah, you know, I, I’d love to just have you chat for a minute about how people know that they are with the real Warren legacy foundation, because you have the foundation. There’s another foundation that’s either starting or has started that sounds like it. There’s also, you know, Nesper, how do they know that they’ve got the real deal?

Chris McKinnell (29:11)
Contact me. I’m easy to get a hold of. I’m not some celebrity or something. I’m just a guy. And you can get a hold of me or you can go to warrenlegacyfoundation.com. That’s where we have a link where you can ask for help. We ask you to fill out a form so we have a better sense of what we’re dealing with before we even talk to you. And then we set up an intake appointment. We find out what we’re dealing with so that we can help you. Half of our job

Scott Allan (29:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chris McKinnell (29:40)
is really understanding the problem. From there, we can develop a plan and work with you and fix it. But first, we have to understand it. And that means we need to ask hard questions. Things like, is there drug and alcohol abuse in the family? Is there a history of mental illness? Is there domestic ⁓ abuse or violence or just strife in the home? And it’s not that those are your explanation, but those can be the doorway to these things getting into your home. And if we don’t deal with the problem holistically, sure, we can do ⁓ a spiritual cleansing in the home, we can knock things out for a day or two, but you’re just gonna keep opening that door again. We need to work on all of it.

Scott Allan (30:32)
That’s right. That’s right. You gotta fix not necessarily what’s causing it, but you’ve got to work on all of the pieces together to get a favorable outcome. And that makes sense. Sometimes when I do this show, I like to do sort of a, I call it a speed round or sort of a word association. I’d like to give you a word or two and see what’s the first thing that pops in your head when I say this. There’s just a few of them. So here we go.

Chris McKinnell (30:40)
Exactly.

Scott Allan (31:01)
Annabelle.

Chris McKinnell (31:04)
pain in the ass.

Scott Allan (31:05)
That’s five words. No, that’s four words. ⁓ The most haunted place you’ve ever been.

Chris McKinnell (31:15)
⁓ wow. ⁓ Lee, Massachusetts.

Scott Allan (31:20)
through one thing that scares you.

Chris McKinnell (31:25)
Somebody I love being hurt.

Scott Allan (31:28)
How about the Warren object that you respect the most?

Chris McKinnell (31:34)
My grandmother’s rosary.

Scott Allan (31:39)
the most misunderstood paranormal concept.

Chris McKinnell (31:43)
demons.

Scott Allan (31:46)
What’s one thing you wish people knew about your grandparents?

Chris McKinnell (31:50)
They were truly good people.

Scott Allan (31:53)
And lastly, the best advice either Ed or Lorraine gave to you.

Chris McKinnell (32:00)
My grandmother said, like attracts like. If you put out positive energy, you’ll attract something positive. If you put out negative energy, you’ll attract something negative.

Scott Allan (32:12)
Yeah, yeah. You know, as we wrap up, I wanna give you an opportunity to just really chat about anything we haven’t talked about today that you wanna make sure people understand when they’re listening. You know, it could be about your grandparents, it could be about the foundation, it could be about really anything, but something that you want people to take with them from today’s discussion.

Chris McKinnell (32:35)
Actually, it’s none of those things. I want to give them some tools to understand what they may be going through first. Number one, look at what’s actually happening. Don’t let your fear guide you. Look at the actual phenomena. So you’re hearing something. That doesn’t mean it’s negative or evil. It’s probably, or your keys go missing for two hours and then they’re right back on the table. You look 10 times. That just means somebody’s trying to get your attention.

That’s not evil. That could actually be a beautiful experience if you weren’t so afraid and if you understood what you were dealing with. Second, treat things respectfully. Learn how to set spiritual boundaries, just like you set personal boundaries in your own life. You know, if someone’s getting too close to you, you say, listen, you’re too close, please back up. Do the same thing with the spirit. If they’re bothering you and you don’t let them know that they’re bothering you.

then you say respectfully, respectfully, but firmly, stop. You may not bother me here. This is my home. If you’re gonna be here, be here quietly. Do not interact with me. Do not interact with my family. I want nothing to do with you. Otherwise, you leave. Nine times out of 10, that’s all you’re gonna need to do. If you’re dealing with somebody who’s disturbed,

Spirit that’s disturbed or a spirit that’s so desperate that they’re not leaving or just they were a jackass in life That’s when you’re gonna need to see people like Scott and I and get some help so Don’t let fear guide you don’t let superstition guide you I know for a fact the phenomena is real But I don’t believe the superstitious explanations that we give to it, and I think that’s a good starting point

Scott Allan (34:35)
That’s wonderful. Chris, thanks for your honesty and your dedication and also for sharing the truth about your grandparents and their mission and what they were really like. And listeners, for more on the Warren Legacy Foundation, visit us at warrenlegacyfoundation.com. And that is the real one. That’s where you’ll find it. Just look for Chris. He’s down on the page, scroll down a little bit. And to learn more about what I do, visit mediumscottallan.com to book a reading, explore events and catch up on regular and bonus episodes. Stay curious, stay safe and join us next time right here on the Night Light Podcast.

Thanks for joining us.