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🌟 ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Against the backdrop of Southern night air and cicadas, host Scott Allan welcomes shadow life coach and Shadow Corner podcast host Sayen Gates for an intimate conversation about Carl Jung shadow work, spiritual awakening, and authentic transformation. Sayen shares her powerful journey from medical assistant to spiritual guide, revealing how shadow work—rooted in Carl Jung’s psychology and philosophy—became her path to healing and helping others embrace their authentic selves.

✨ This conversation explores:

• Carl Jung’s psychology and shadow work fundamentals in modern practice

• Overcoming mental health challenges through self-acceptance and mindfulness

• Breaking free from cultural conditioning and perfectionism

• Spiritual awakening practices including journaling and inner child healing

• Manifestation through authenticity and personal growth

• The role of coaching and community in transformation

• Practical shadow work exercises for healing burnout and self-rejection

Whether you’re beginning your spiritual journey or deepening your shadow work practice, this episode offers wisdom on authenticity, personal development, and self-improvement—empowering you to become the co-author of your luminous, one-of-a-kind life.

👤 ABOUT SAYEN GATES

Sayen Gates is a shadow life coach, podcast host, and spiritual guide helping individuals embrace authentic transformation through Carl Jung shadow work practices. Through her Shadow Corner podcast and coaching programs, Sayen guides clients through healing, self-acceptance, and spiritual awakening.

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Unedited Transcript:

Scott Allan (06:23.788)
It’s late at night and the only sound is the soft hum of cicadas drifting through South Carolina’s air. Somewhere, a young person sits cross-legged on the edge of their bed.

wrestling with the shadows in their heart, old wounds, unspoken fears, and the ache to feel whole. For Cyan Gates, it was in these quiet, honest moments that true healing began. Tonight, we journey into the heart of shadow work, guided by someone who’s walked the path from medical assistant to spiritual guide, and from self-doubt to luminous self-acceptance.

I’m Scott Allen and you’re listening to the Enlighten Light podcast where we explore the mysteries of the soul’s journey, healing and transformation. Sian, I’m so glad you’re here. Your story, leaving behind a career in medicine to help others heal on a deeper level is really the kind of leap that takes courage most of us only dream about. So welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re with us.

Sayen Gates (07:28.141)
I’m glad to be here. Rides, rides!

Scott Allan (07:31.01)
No, people know, if you’re listening, this is like take three because of sound.

Sayen Gates (07:37.965)
Take 4900 and thousand seven.

Scott Allan (07:42.068)
That’s alright, that’s alright. Here we are. You know, I really like to start back at the beginning though with you. What made you become a shadow life coach and how did your time in the medical field shape that approach to healing?

Sayen Gates (07:55.755)
So I, to answer the first question, I became a medical assistant because it was a career path decision to do so on account of one, I had a very innate heart to help others be of self-service when you…

When I took the test at church and they asked you what gifts that you had, mine came up as that I had the gift of service. So that means like for me, the fulfillment in my spirit is serving others. And that’s something that I’ve always had either with this outside my friends or outside my family. I’ve always tried to find a way to give of myself to make sure that

I make an impact. So when I transitioned from, from doing that to now being a life coach, it was one of those things that, that tested my grit a little bit because I went from just not only advocating for my patients, but advocating for people that are still learning not only themselves, but also learning

what it truly means to be authentic. And that makes any sense.

Scott Allan (09:26.04)
Sure.

Yeah, and can you just, I mean, just because I’m not sure everyone is completely familiar with the term, but for those who are listening and are not familiar with this, what is shadow work and why does it matter? You know, like in terms of personal growth, how does it fit in?

Sayen Gates (09:42.891)
Okay, so the first thing to make sure my brain doesn’t fry in the midst. So the coin term shadow work was given by Carl Jun. He put up the name shadow work because it represented parts of our subconscious or parts of ourselves that we do not acknowledge and that we bury.

And from what he said when I read it, it was a way of uncovering the things that holds us back in our waking life. And also in the spiritual community, shadow work is making sure that you… It’s an invitation from spirit for you to heal bits and pieces and parts of yourself.

that you need to go to the next elevating level. Now for some people it, maybe achievements is their way of elevation, like learning a lot more. For other people maybe exercising is their version of elevating. For me, shadow work is a way of going within self and looking at those broken pieces that I left behind. Cause whether we know it or not,

The person that you are now was not the person you came and born with. You had the factory setting where you were born. You were learning how to eat, you were learning how to talk, and you were learning how to be a human. After that, you started to get culturally set to who you are and culturally conditioned, society conditioned, because this is something that your parents and everybody taught you how to be.

And then slowly but surely once you got older, you started to condition yourself into who you are now. Which in most cases when people do shadow work, they think, okay, so now that I’m not the same person I was, there’s no going up from there. You are completely wrong in that regard because as an individual, you’re consistently growing.

Sayen Gates (12:01.537)
You’re not always going to be the same person you were 10 years ago, five years ago. There’s always something that you’re going to learn. And with shadow work, it allows you that invitation between you and spirit to be able to figure out why these patterns, behaviors pop up at this and that time. And sometimes spirit brings these invitations in important parts of your life. So that way you can actually

correct them before you’re given more. The term that they used to give us in church was like, God can’t give you more if you’re scrounging on the less that he already gave you. So imagine yourself going to a higher pinnacle, but spirits like, okay, I see that you’re still dealing with this type of behavior.

Maybe if I put you in these situations, then you’ll understand that there’s needs to be worked here. This is my invitation to you.

Scott Allan (13:04.238)
Right. Well, and in fact, you talk about breaking, you know, your inner barriers, which, you know, is really a part of growth. What what what do you think is the biggest fear that holds people back?

Scott Allan (13:16.61)
Is it failure?

Sayen Gates (13:16.909)
It’s between failure and acceptance. I don’t know where that line leaned because acceptance has become one of those things that’s easy if it’s something that’s, how do I put it? Acceptance has become one of those things that comes with conditions because we’re basing it off of the people around us and their comfortability.

Sometimes it’s not always about the comfort of the people around you. It’s about what is healing for you. And when you look at these broken pieces, you’re like, okay, I can’t accept that, that when I get in front of people, I had to get anxious, sweaty. How can I overcome that? These, if this is something that’s a part of you, then you have to learn how to

Excuse my French, sorry. You have to learn exactly where does this come rooted from. One person that I had as a client for a short period of time, her fear when it came down to public speaking was attached to her as a child when her parents would tell her that she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. So she shuts her down.

Scott Allan (14:44.632)
Mm-hmm.

Sayen Gates (14:46.569)
So when we get to those points, we don’t know that those types of behaviors or types of things follow us from childhood to adulthood. the fear of people either finding out about it or people using it against you is something that I’ve seen.

be a heavier weight than fear itself.

Scott Allan (15:18.798)
So it sounds in a certain, I mean, and I’m sure this is only probably the life coaching part, but have you trained in that? It sounds a little bit almost like psychology to a certain degree.

Sayen Gates (15:33.185)
Yes, there are some psychology aspects to what I do, but I stay within my coaching frame by asking the questions. Because I know at all things, when I know that there’s something that I professionally have not had any experience with, and I know that this is outside my scope as a life coach, I recommend a psychologist or a therapist. But as far as as a coach, I’m the person that helps ask the questions.

Scott Allan (15:55.761)
good.

Sayen Gates (16:02.529)
Let’s explore that. Why do you feel it? I was like, why do you feel as if that you can’t speak in front of people? What is the frog in your throat every time you try to speak? These small questions helps the individual figure out why do I do that? And then you have to go back into the mega files of your life and figure out where in each moment, why did that?

Scott Allan (16:15.544)
Mm-hmm.

Sayen Gates (16:32.991)
seemed so much heavier than it already was.

Scott Allan (16:36.758)
So what’s a big misconception that people have about shadow work that maybe you might be able to help people understand?

Sayen Gates (16:44.269)
I know the one misconception because TikTok has made it mainstream that shadow work is just meditation, burning candles, burning slips of paper, you writing the letter to the person and then burning that paper, or you just going through one day of you just trying to heal yourself, but you don’t realize it’s a lifetime thing.

Scott Allan (17:14.328)
Mm-hmm.

Sayen Gates (17:14.603)
Sometimes it’s just like when you practice for something that you’ve always wanted, you’re not gonna get, it’d be perfect on the first go. So you expect the falls and the slip ups. With shadow work is the same way. You have to get that this is not a one fixed thing. It is a, this is a process. It may take me a little bit longer, but I’m willing to take the journey thing.

And you have to also remember to give yourself grace within that journey because there’s gonna be parts in shadow work where you’re gonna feel like you’re the lowest of the low because you’re not handling your everyday tasks. One example I can give you is like, as of recently, I’ve had my low where it’s like,

My family, we were always a type of people where was like we always tried to keep money coming in the house, in and out. But because of my injury, I’ve had to decline my workload. Problem is, that’s not who I am. I’m the person that’s like, go, go, go. We have to get things done. But that’s stemming from

Scott Allan (18:13.422)
Mm-hmm.

Sayen Gates (18:33.045)
what I saw with my, the trauma comes back to like with my parents. My father was a truck driver. My mom, she worked at a grocery store. So when my dad wasn’t home, my mom was helping sorting out the bills and everything else. There was no slow time. There was no, take a break. You were either working or you were preparing yourself for another job or another work. So for me,

At that time, it made me feel as if I was being lazy. But in actuality, I was taking the time to actually listen to my body, to listen to what my spirit want me to say like, hey, we’ve been doing this for a long time. You’ve been work doing like this stuff since you were 19. It’s kind of time for us to chill out now because I’m exhausted. I’m listening to my spirit tell me you are exhausted.

you need to rest. And as much as you want to be there or be all of what you’ve been raised to be, again, this is where the social and cultural norms come in because I was like, I’m a black female. We have this misconception where we have to be strong all the time. And this conception is like, we don’t have any problems. But in actuality, it’s a mental battle every day.

The whole time I was laying in my bed feeling as if I was lazy, the laundry was not getting done. My husband had to pick up the slack of doing dishes because I was so much into the phone and trying to get myself out of this mental disarray that at some point I started to get lost in it. But just like everything,

It’s baby steps. I don’t have that feeling anymore because I know that I’m not doing it by myself anymore. I actually have somebody that helps me and I have to remind myself consistently that you’re not by yourself. Spirit’s helping you. You have friends. They’ll help you. You have family. They’ll help you. These are reinforcing all the teaching that I learned throughout my shadow work.

Scott Allan (20:56.59)
Yeah, and in fact, you’re a host of the Shadow Corner, which is a podcast about deconstructing old foundations. So what inspired you to create the show? Can you tell us a little bit about it and how people can find it?

Sayen Gates (21:08.327)
So, Shadow Corner the podcast, can find it on Spotify or any place you get your podcast, whatever your leisure. I created Shadow Corner so that way it would be a representation of a safe place for those that are still trying to figure out their coping mechanisms, their trauma, their issues, anything that Shadow work.

has pertained to it and I use parts of my life as a way of doing that. One episode I talked about how I came from perfectionism because I came from the family where it’s like I have a sister and she made mistakes during that time and she was the oldest and in some cases the oldest is the trial and error child.

So that means that the parent learns from that child exactly what not to do the second time around. So when it came to when I was born, it was a harder stuff on me because that meant that nowhere in any circumstances could I ever mess up. And it made me put this perfection badge on the whole time because I felt like that’s what my mom wanted. That’s what she needed. But my assumptions…

got me into a lot of low places to where I felt broken. I felt like I couldn’t move forward. And then I had to…

I had to learn that grace is not something that’s given.

Sayen Gates (22:52.959)
is not given not just by others, but it should be given to yourself as freely. And it was where I also found that, hey, if people knew about this side of shadow work, they would want to learn how to move forward healthy, authentic. So I created that space to give people advice about spiritual matters, to give advice about

the perfectionism flags of the anxiety or anything pertaining to mental health or in the space of not understanding why they’re tired or burnt out. I did an episode on burnt out where I, at that time, I was exhausted. I was pulling 12 hour shifts and still trying to

build my brand. So I was coming to you from an authentic place. But Shadow Corner is just that, for you, a space to you to feel relaxed, be able to not only hear where I’m coming from, but also give you an opportunity to take notes that it’s not just you that goes through these things.

Scott Allan (24:17.198)
I would love to just, and I’ve got all of these thoughts coming to me as you’re talking, so I want to mention something that just sort of came into my head. And you can tell me I’m wrong or you can tell me I’m right on and I don’t really know whether I’m right or wrong, to be honest with you. But I feel like, so you know I’m from Boston, right? North of the, you know, Northeast. You’re in South Carolina. There is probably,

Sayen Gates (24:33.932)
Okay?

Sayen Gates (24:43.436)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Allan (24:46.432)
And I’m only going based on what I see here and, you know, and think, but there is, there is a difference between being a black woman or I just don’t dare to be a woman. could be a man, but in the South and being a white man or woman in the North. Now that doesn’t mean that people from the North don’t have problems, but I feel like if you are in the South and you’re a black

Sayen Gates (25:00.149)
Mm-hmm.

Sayen Gates (25:09.493)
Right?

Scott Allan (25:15.566)
person, you’re almost psychologically trained to feel like you have to work harder. You have to do more to climb out of that, whatever that is, you know, if you want to make sure your family’s fed, if you want to make sure that you are, you know, doing the very best you can, because I don’t think that you and I mean you specifically, but you but you are

You don’t have the same people don’t, it’s not that they don’t look at you. That’s not the right word. It’s almost like you have a more difficult time because society is always trying to push you back. Do you know what I mean? And I’m trying to say that in a way that I feel like as a white person, and I’m not trying to make this about race, but I feel like it’s easier for us to get into areas and ways to help lift us up.

Sayen Gates (26:06.605)
We’re eight.

Scott Allan (26:14.47)
And the reason I’m asking this is do you work primarily with people of color or do you work with everybody? And I’m not saying you consciously do it, but I mean, is that generally who your client base is based on where you are? Because I feel like you have a unique understanding or you would have a unique understanding that could help, you know what I mean?

Sayen Gates (26:35.563)
Yeah, I work with,

anybody that spirit brings my way there is no race has nothing to do with it but I know that majority of the time I get people that look like me that’s trying to figure out this thing called life and how to get rid of all these get rid of the things that don’t belong to them because yeah you are correct I live in the south that was that’s the mindset here

And in the words of a friend of mine, it’s a crab in a bucket mentality. You can’t just pull yourself up without grabbing on someone else’s heel in order for you to get up there. The thing is, that I don’t do, me personally, I don’t do that because I believe everybody deserves to be able to shine in their own light in their own way.

So I uniquely ask certain questions and say, okay, do you feel as if that you don’t measure up? Do you feel as if that you don’t? Because it’s like, as a coach, you’re acting on curiosity. You’re asking the questions to make sure that the person knows how to identify themselves outside of the label that they were given, which is their name, which is their race, which is the culture they’ve been in, the society norms.

It’s to get the person to understand that outside of the labels that are obvious to you, what is your authentic self telling you to bring to the forefront and to help you shine? So with me, I try to make sure that people know that for me personally, I am a kind hearted, loving person. I’m hyper. I have all…

Scott Allan (28:23.458)
And that radiates that radiates through the, and I don’t mean the hyper part. mean, the kind person for the podcast, but, but I, but I also think, and I, and I really, please forgive me. It’s not about the race. It’s about, think you’re uniquely empowered to help people in a way that I might not be able to, because you have an understanding and that that’s really where I was going with that. You know, you’re in a different part of the country. You’re in a different area.

Sayen Gates (28:29.301)
Yes!

Scott Allan (28:51.276)
And I think that you’re uniquely powered. However, yes, would you work with someone? Absolutely, you work with anyone. And that’s the beauty of it. But at the same time, I think you’ve got probably a unique perspective that probably sort of comes in maybe even without you even understanding it, you know, as you go through. And I think it’s not so much about you. It’s a lot more about society and the pressures that society places on us to stay

Sayen Gates (28:56.897)
Yes.

Scott Allan (29:20.982)
here instead of here that make it difficult for us to break those barriers, you know.

Sayen Gates (29:27.925)
because we whether we know it or not there is a glass ceiling in everything that we do it may not look like that all the time but it is somebody yep cuz it’s glass now whether or not this for some people it’s glass other people it may be marble I don’t know but depending on their circumstances it’s it’s between them and what they want and some are afraid to

Scott Allan (29:39.054)
That’s because it’s glass.

Sayen Gates (29:57.335)
break that ceiling because they are scared of the what ifs. And then also if you think about everything that you sacrifice when you get there, the cuts and bruises that you get when you go through that you don’t realize. Like when I…

The best way to describe it is when I knew that this is something that I wanted to do, it was going against everything my mother taught me. As in like, you get a job, you get paid, you pay your bills, and if you have the money, then you go ahead and do what you do, cacaw. But I was like,

When I worked for one of the hospitals down here, I had a spirit in my heart that told me from this point on, I will take care of you. You will not have to worry about anything. To this day, I have not had to worry about a single thing. I’ve done a whole marriage. I have built my business and I have two podcasts. I have not.

Scott Allan (31:02.573)
lovely.

Scott Allan (31:11.288)
You have two. What’s the other podcast?

Sayen Gates (31:14.219)
So the other podcast is of a passion of mine for personal, it’s a video game podcast. It’s called Pixel Sisters Afro gaming podcast. I do it with one of my best friends and we talk about like different animes, movies, things going on in cartoon culture. She’s an artist. So we talk about like the things of how one of the episodes we did, we talked about how AI is

destroying the space of gaming right now because we’re starting to see that some people are using more AI to make their characters instead of them actually drawing out their characters, doing the animation themselves because they want it to be less time. Well, we both think that’s a shame and she thinks it is. And she’s also said that AI steals from other artists because they pull from different things from the web and

It’s a whole thing.

Scott Allan (32:13.114)
Oh my gosh, I had no idea that’s like totally the opposite, but I love that. But here’s the beauty. People are listening to this. Your as I said to you, your personality, personality radiates through this, you have such a wonderful personality, it’s engaging. And it is infectious. You know, it really is. I’m sure people are going to want to work with you because you have a beautiful smile, which they can’t see if they’re hearing it, but they might see what’s on YouTube. And I think I think just

Sayen Gates (32:35.5)
The

Scott Allan (32:40.438)
you can feel the authenticity. really want to give you an opportunity to, I mean, I know there’s never enough time in these things, but I wanna give you an opportunity to share anything you wanna share, a thought, a story, piece of wisdom, or anything that you’d like to leave with our listeners today.

Sayen Gates (33:01.693)
because I’m making sure I make this count.

One thing I wanna leave you with is this.

Sayen Gates (33:17.729)
The number one thing that was my problem during my shadow work was the fact that I didn’t know how to separate the labels and get to the person. Because I was always…

preoccupied about what other people thought about me, what people would say about me if I moved this type of way. But in actuality, I don’t care. In the mental space, I had to get to a point of, in the words of my friend Effett, and run through that glass ceiling anyway. If I get deep cuts, that means that I actually wanted it that bad. But

I’m talking to you not as just a person or whatever my skin color is. I’m talking to you as a person that’s walked through the shadows themselves. like, I’ve seen what it does to people. It makes it seem as if that you, could put you in a depression. It could put you in anxiety. Sometimes in some cases you feel like you don’t even want to live. And it’s a shame in that.

Scott Allan (34:32.216)
it is.

Sayen Gates (34:33.227)
That’s why I changed my logo from on the cover of my podcast to a lantern. Because I feel like for me, I represent that lantern helping you get back to yourself. And then a lot of us don’t sometimes don’t realize when we get in relationships, when we get into social contracts, sometimes we’re willing to sacrifice

actual pieces of ourselves in order to make something happen. But the thing is you don’t really don’t have to do that. If you just be yourself and just live the life that you feel as if is best for you, you will be perfectly fine. No one’s asking you to be the top dog all the time. Sometimes you’re not going to feel like the top dog. Some days you probably just going to be.

Like how I do, I sit on the couch and I’m just like, okay, I just exist today. And that’s okay.

Scott Allan (35:34.124)
and live the life that’s right for you. Live the life that’s right for you. And I think the for you part is what’s so important because what’s right for me may not be right for you and vice versa.

Yeah, thanks.

Sayen Gates (35:46.871)
So you have to find your balance, your peace, your mental. Your meditation may not look like my meditation. Your journaling may not look like my journaling. The letters you write to other people. That’s the unique part about it. Because you’re expressing yourself in a way that no one else can do but you. Because you are the co-author of it. And you should own that. You really should own that and be proud of that.

because there’s only one you in this world. Being someone else is overrated. Like the price tag has been down to a negative 55 and lower. When you are priceless being authentic and it costs nothing to do it, but it will cost you everything if you don’t let yourself do it.

Scott Allan (36:26.286)
You’re right.

Scott Allan (36:39.47)
That’s beautiful. You are a bright light, let me tell you. And I mean that sincerely. And I wanna thank you really for sharing your heart and your hard-won wisdom, really, because it’s not easy. And for those of you who are listening today, if you wanna learn more about Cyan’s work, book a session or even turn into her podcast, The Shadow Corner, visit shadowcornerlifecoaching.com. All the links are in the show notes. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, please leave us a review on Apple.

Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps more people find the show and join our community of soul seekers. Don’t forget to subscribe on our YouTube channel for exclusive video content, behind the scenes moments, and more conversations like this one. And brand new, if you’d like to support the show, check out our Patreon. Your membership helps keep those powerful stories and teachings coming. Plus you’ll get early access bonus content and a few surprises along the way.

And please remember you are a luminous conscious stardust being forged in the crucible of cosmic fire. Thank you Deepak Chopra for that little cosmic pep talk. And until next time, keep questioning, keep growing and never forget, you are not alone on this journey. Thank you, Cyan and we’ll see you all next time.